Forum:2019-08-28 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Enjoying this wiki? Help to update it. ---- The gate is ajar... Now up for real. ➤ That set of picture cannot possibly be put into a sequence of less-to-more mechanical. They're just weird. So we're looking at some random transformation of her body that's beyond her control. Possibly the early (physiological time) stages were less-to-more around her eye, but the one in the middle today especially makes no sense. ➤ :Agree. Maybe there are multiple copies running around in time. I wonder also if a human being can travel through time, or whether they're basically mechs with Lucrezia uploads. heteromeles :: No. Those are Lucrezia. She's really upset in the last panel. Moxana points to whoever it was who reminded us of L-in-A staring in the mirror and telling Tarvek how long it's been since she was really human. No points for me, though; I'm going to have to rethink the sequence of events. Bkharvey (talk) 05:09, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Presumably this means that Friday Lucrezia is going to explain something to us. Either that or Bang is going to burst in. Bkharvey (talk) 04:08, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :Usually when a villain starts monologing, it's a sign that the hero's about to turn the tables. When a hero starts monologing...how annoying. And don't forget the ninjas. heteromeles :: Maybe we'll be lucky and Lu will start monologuing. :-) Bkharvey (talk) 05:10, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :Bang isn't anywhere near the Dome. And why would she pop up in front of ALbia? Are you forgetting the invading troops looking for Lucrezia? Might they be more likely to interfere? Sorry, the looong desired Bang-Zeetha fight is a way off. --Fred1740 (talk) 12:07, August 28, 2019 (UTC) ::I know, it just wouldn't have been as funny with the ninjas. ;-) Bkharvey (talk) 01:54, August 29, 2019 (UTC) P.S. The first of the sepia pictures immediately reminded me of the bas-relief women sculpted on the side of the Mirrors. Not the whole thing, just the leg, and the Mirror ones look much more like flesh than these do. But, did anyone else have the same reaction? Bkharvey (talk) 05:16, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Sometimes we do need to have more questions answered than raised, to avoid collapsing the whole story under a mountain of confusion, and I hope this is one of those times where we do get at least a little more exposition. I don't know for sure what's about to happen, but I like the way this is set up. At face value, a goddess with unbelievable power confronts a cowardly woman who has been trying to run from her for several pages. Albia is picking on a mere mortal who is trying to bribe her guards to escape. : Don't forget that Lu can run away, simply by withdrawing in favor of Agatha as she did for von Pinn. Bkharvey (talk) 07:03, August 28, 2019 (UTC) ::That instance was Lucrezia simply returning control to Agatha as Von Pinn was programmed to defend Agatha. I don't think Lu wnats to do that here as it would lead to her removal form Agatha and containerization. --Fred1740 (talk) 17:04, August 29, 2019 (UTC) But from what Albia says, Lucrezia has been a major power, perhaps even her superior, for ages. Another way of reading this is that a universe-spanning trickster god has just been cornered by a physically stronger, but ultimately inferior, local god. : So, notwithstanding, it seems clear that god-queens (and god-Snacky) don't just know more science; they're physiologically different, and they got that way all at once, not by building themselves prostheses. So I'm not sure about "ultimately inferior"; Lu's strength is just better weapons. But we need to find out about Lu's physiological changes before it makes sense to place bets either way. Bkharvey (talk) 07:03, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Anyway, I will note that we've basically just had Albia get on board the Lucrezia=Muze of Time train in passing. And although I'm kind of curious how Albia knows that all these manifestations are the same person, as a psychology-obsessed spark-goddess I'm pretty tempted to assume that she has good reasons for coming to that conclusion. (Also, based on this representation, if all of those figures are Lucrezia, they seem like different Lucrezias. Maybe she has been using a lot of different bodies to hop through time. Certainly the "one mechanical eye" rule is completely busted here.) Also, I'm dying to hear what Lucrezia says next. I think she's an egotistical psychopath, but when she's mad, she tends to behave a bit weird. I am curious what she thinks she's been doing all this time. Quantheory (talk) 05:17, August 28, 2019 (UTC) : Speaking of which, Albia is supposed to be able to see into minds, such as Gil's when she asked if he was continuing Klaus's brain dissection work. So all this talking is clearly just because Albia wants us to understand! :-P I don't believe that those are all different bodies (different callings) of Lu. She's so upset it's clear that she remembers every one of those episodes. Bkharvey (talk) 05:22, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :: Well, it's not clear to me that L-I-A remembers all of those, since it's not like she can see the memories that we're looking at. But also, even if she does remember them all, they don't all have to be the same body. It could be like how she wanted to transfer her mind into Zola (but more successful); she could be using mechanical components to enhance her lifespan in the short term (like Master Voltaire), while using mind-transfers every century or two to start fresh. ::: Voltaire didn't show up looking totally different every week; he's much more plausibly a story about lifespan-enhancement. I could be wrong, of course, but I think that if these transitions were under her control, Lu wouldn't have to dig through the junk pile each time; she'd get better and better. Those sepia pictures look more like constructs than anything. Maybe every time she time-travels, it almost kills her (or someone she fights almost kills her) and she limps back to RvR who transfers her into a different construct body. Or something. Bkharvey (talk) 07:03, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :: Also, given , I'm not really sure that Lucrezia or anyone connected to her is as easy to read as your average Joe. If you can learn to stop a mind-replacing device, you might be able to stop someone from reading your mind... Quantheory (talk) 05:41, August 28, 2019 (UTC) P.P.S. Last panel. The locket. No trilobite, but rather a number that's either 13 or 43. Gave me the irreverent thought that Cheyenne does the coloring as a paint-by-numbers. :-P But what does it really mean? Bkharvey (talk) 05:22, August 28, 2019 (UTC) : It means Phil's being sloppy with his artwork again.--Geoduck42 (talk) 05:53, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Hmm, also, compare this with a reincarnated spark and a God-Spark faced off. Not that this situation is at all the same, but last time it didn't go so well for the "God". Round two... fight! Quantheory (talk) 06:26, August 28, 2019 (UTC) So Agatha freed Lucrezia in . --Fred1740 (talk) 12:07, August 28, 2019 (UTC) : Well probably Lucrezia-In-Agatha did it. BoyfootBear (talk) 16:40, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Could each of the different appearance be an Alternate Universe Lucrezia? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 15:42, August 28, 2019 (UTC) What has Lucrezia been up to? Saving the world. From a Hyper Menace only she can see. Useless to try to enlist the aid of lesser beings. They'd only get in the way. Like right now for instance. -- SpareParts (talk) 16:46, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :Lucrezia is not saving anything other than herself. She always been about ruling everyone. Even the said so. --Fred1740 (talk) 12:06, August 29, 2019 (UTC) So if Lucrezia can jump around with hardware, what would have stopped her from jumping back with a mini slaver engine and wasping people in the dawn of time? Again with the Quantheory Barrier? We already “know” that someone looking like the Muse has opened a time viewing window on the present-day side of the Time of Prophecy. We’ve seen slaver engines small enough to carry. Is Lucrezia’s game some larger goal (the above Hyper Menace) that required the enslavement of the entire populace only in the present day? 9thGeneral (talk) 20:23, August 28, 2019 (UTC) Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if there is A Muse of Time, or whether we're seeing sort of an homage to the Terminator franchise (or possibly to Kage Baker's Corporation). "Real" Lucrezia is either in essentia (aka a soul out there beyond the fourth dimension that gets copied/downloaded by the machine), or she's gone viral, copying herself multiple times into multiple media, a swarm of essentia. To create the Muses of Time, versions of her were downloaded into time traveling constructs. Multiple constructs, done multiple times, each one launched back to a specific time in the past to complete a mission, then presumably recalled and uploaded. When the launches into the past were completed, so were her prophecies, at least until the captured Muse was released and disappeared somewhere. heteromeles : Interesting theory, but... Lucrezia was a real person with a continuous history until the attack (if that's what it was) on Castle Heterodyne. Beyond that, she always looked the same to the Geisters until she got pregnant and distressed. The "gone viral" version is possible, but, first of all, she doesn't talk or act like a secret agent. She's a Player. Now, it could be that she sent construct agents, but that doesn't fit with "and no one ever came to rescue me! Not my wretched husband, not daddy, not you--and I waited for so long! Where were you all?" No, Lucrezia in the flesh was imprisoned. Maybe by RvR, but maybe not; maybe he was her second imprisonment. (If it was RvR's trap, and she expected to be rescued, that would imply that Bill, her dad, and Klaus knew how to follow her through time, and I'm pretty sure that's not true about Klaus, at least.) Bkharvey (talk) 05:38, August 29, 2019 (UTC) :: Imprisoned or stranded somewhere; maybe nobody was actively holding her while she was awaiting rescue. --Geoduck42 (talk) 11:32, August 29, 2019 (UTC) ::On the other hand, when Agatha (and company) freed the Muse of Time from Van Rijn's trap, the Muse didn't overtly recognize Agatha. Instead she said "Hee! You can always count on sparks to meddle with things they don't understand!" and gloated about how dead Van Rijn was. If that Muse had recognized Agatha, something like "Well done my dear!" would have worked better. That may just be on the Foglios' writing, but it could be another clue into how this all works. heteromeles : The Order had burnt out a great many female sparks trying to download Lucrezia from whatever cloud storage system. Other forms of transfer (Zola, Otilla) seem to be much easier so perhaps the theory holds because it is easy to copy a consciousness from a person rather than the cloud? The rules have not yet been fully revealed. Another possibility is the multiple timelines/universes version of time travel. It could be that there are many copies of Lucrezia-as-Muse and they alternatively cooperate or fight each other like the Ricks of Rick & Morty. Side observation: it is interesting that Lucrezia in the current strip is incensed over the word "game" when she has previously obsessed about winning . The end of that particular strip makes it look like "having it all" was her end goal, not some loftier save the world from creatures from the 8th dimension. 9thGeneral (talk) 11:47, August 29, 2019 (UTC) ::The Engine at Sturmhalten was configured for Lucrezia's daughter - Agatha. It was also incorrectly assembled, according to Lucrezia, and operates by people not familiar with it. Which is why it fried so many young women. --Fred1740 (talk) 12:06, August 29, 2019 (UTC) :: Quantheory (talk) 19:14, August 29, 2019 (UTC)